BT:
VS
Dragon Horse:
Topics of Discussion:
1) The State of African American Education
2) Root Causes of African American Crime Rate
3) The Causes of the Current African American Poverty Rate
Rules:
-For each category each person must first state their opinion on each issue before addressing the other person’s opinion.
-Any posts written by anyone other than BT or myself will be deleted.
-No cursing or name calling.
-Neither opponent will have their post edited but due to cursing, name calling, or failing to source a statement when challenged.
-Any facts that are not common knowledge must be supported with a source from a website, study, book, journal, magazine that could be used in an academic paper or trade journal. white supremacist and black nationalist/Afrocentrist sites are not allowed.
-Debate will last no longer than one week.
For the Record I challenged the childish alias, “Cracka Smasher” and the more mature but still lacking Nana.
He made all kinds of exuses which lead me to believe this is the type of person he is despite his rhetoric, typical.
Hello Dragon Horse…I couldn’t find your email address so I had to submit some info to you this way. Please accept my apologies. I just wanted to let you know about our live podcast show….here is the info and again sorry to contact you this way:
the state of black manhood
PLEASE PASS THIS EMAIL ALONG TO YOUR FRIENDS, FOES AND COLLEAGUES-WE APPRECIATE THE SUPPORT.
********************************************************************************
In my estimation, it (this video at: http://afronerd.blogspot.com/2007/08/addressing-black-masculinity-in-21st.html) serves as an example of the demise and feminization of the Black male image and is an affront to Black manhood. If it’s not a gay tryst or homoerotic thuggery then it’s socio-economically impotent men of color that are promoted in mainstream culture-not the strong, resilient and/or heroic male role models that the African-American community so desperately needs. Wasn’t it Dave Chappelle (during his Oprah interview) that suggested that Black actors must put on a dress upon entering Hollywood’s city limits? So let’s flesh this topic out folks. What does it mean to be a Black man in 2007? What are our responsibilities? Are we failing or are we thriving? Perhaps neither. We ask our readers to drop by Thursday the 30th at 9pm and give us a call or an email to discuss these issues. Join us as we ask these questions and more at: 646-915-9620 or via IM/email (afronerdradio@yahoo). Just visit us at afronerd radio dot com.
http://www.afronerdradio.com
http://www.afronerd.com
Sincerely,
dburt
Cowards are a no show…
Tick…tick…tick…still cowards, the entire lot of them. When it comes to one on one uninterrupted, non-echo chamber debate the cowards absent, but they can talk a lot of noise on others people’s site where they can act a ghetto and have backup to run interference. Typical.
Just thinking:
What BT, Nana, Cnulan, and especially Cracka don’t get is they feel helpless, despite their middling efforts to connect with their blackness, or use it in an argument, because they truly believe they are persecuted when the truth is whatever failings they blame on the white man and try to brag about in an effort to temporarily boost their self esteem are mostly, if not totally, their fault.
They don’t win just because they are something. But they believe that. It’s behind most of what they write.
But here I am, a black man. Supposedly a trolling crazy sellout uncle tom rightest who is relatively happy with life (about as much as most people get) doing what I want to do and relatively happy with it and my place in this country. For them that is like having a mirror put up to them showing all their failures for what they are.
They don’t own the experience of black. It owns them. They’re not black men, yet, and maybe never will be. They are still in the field and everyone else is free and they just don’t believe it and keep working for massa, sad, but common.
I’m a ex-Christian but I have read the bible cover to cover. My favorite verse:
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
Some of us are never psychologically able to look “through a glass darkly” (the mirror) in fact some of us live all our lives unable to face up to the reality of what we see in the mirror.
That’s life.
DH,
I think its deeper than this, this thought is only developing so it might be no very clear, but I will try.
First off the people you have mentioned likely wouldn’t consider themselves failures. But at the same time they would not want to give themselves the credit for their degree of success. I think the reason is the same reason the similiar to the same reason at times a husband doesn’t credit himself with the way his wife responds to him.
For instance, if your wife has been short and crabby with you, and you make a change in your way of responding, and she changes, its better for the husband to say he’s been acting exactly the same way and she just started responding differently. It takes the responsibilty off the man in terms of how he effects the relationship. If he credits the change in her behavior by the changes in his behavior, than its him with the responsibility. Its far easier to say, he isn’t doing anything different, she just is happening to be acting different.
In the same way, liberals very seldom admit their success was from their own hard work. They will say they were fortunate, or some people around them helped them. It seems virteous not to give yourself credit, but at the same time, its a political move. If your success was accomplished through your hard work, or through the work of a previous generation in your family, you are admitting its your own power that will lift you, and not someone else’s power over you.
If on the other hand you are just lucky, born into a good family, than we can still blame the system for the others who aren’t as lucky as we just happened to be. Even with our successes, we can still keep our attitudes. By not crediting, whatever your successes are, with the effort you yourself put into it, in effect you have kept personal responsibility from being part of the equation and have put all blame for success or failure in the hands of someone else.
Being fortunately successful and promoting you had no part in your success are credentials needed to become a liberal elite. The other side, “I worked hard to get where I am, you can too”. does not give any power to the one saying this. The individual who accepts the latter saying gets the power. And like in a husband and wife relationship, admitting you have the power isn’t something that’s always a joy to own.
By the way I liked the picture selection
Ken…so it all boils down to middle class liberal black guilt?
I don’t think I would phrase it this way. To admit personal accomplishment is why you are where you are at, opens the door to admit personal accomplishment is why someone else is the reason that person is where they are at. What does this do to the white supremacy dynamic theory? Or white entitlement? The whole black unity is centered around being kept down by whitey and whitey advancing from the sweat of the black. To admit you are where you are at because of your efforts, also admits whitey is where he is at because of his effort. It screws up the whole equation.
Adding insult to injury is also the acceptance of responsibility.
Don’t miss the point of the husband wife illustration. A person has incentive not to admit they did someting different to bring about the change in the wife’s response. To admit this means they were at fault also for the conflict to arrise. And would be responsible to act differently to avoid the conflict.
“The whole black unity is centered around being kept down by whitey and whitey advancing from the sweat of the black. To admit you are where you are at because of your efforts, also admits whitey is where he is at because of his effort. It screws up the whole equation.”
I can agree with this, it always comes down to this on these boards.
Even when speaking about international issues.
People talk as if white people went to South Africa and diamonds and gold jumped up out of the ground like a hot spring and white people just sat back and did nothing but worked the black man to death and enslaved him.
Reality is that white people did not get to where they were, with the ability to conquer and administer a land mass as big as South Africa without much work on there part.
This in no way means they did not enslave and brutalized South African blacks, but it also means that the Afrikaners had to “work”. It means the British at home, before they ever left Britain had to work, they had to invent technologies or modify them, etc.
If you listen to some black nationalist racial globalist, whatever the nonsense term of the decade is…they say:
1) The black man was nearly perfect and peaceful, and highly advanced in all areas.
2) The savage barbaric greedy white man crawled out of a dark cave in Europe and completely destroyed Pax-Africanus LOL
3) White men just sit back and drank lemonade for the next 400-500 years while the black man worked hard and the white man go riches and more advanced because they either stole black ideas or had the time to sit around and “dream up things” because they didn’t have to work.
All those things defy history.
Once I was arguing with a black nationalist and he was saying Timbuktu was so advanced and white people were in European during the Dark ages all barbaric and ignorant…and Timbuktu was the center of the Islamic world.
I almost fell out of my chair laughing.
First Timbuktu may have been the center of Sub-Saharan African Islam, maybe even most of Africa, but the center of Islam could not have been outside the Caliphate which was in Asia-Minor at the time.
He then said…leaders from West Africa had all this gold blah blah blah.
I freely admitted this is likely true, because the area is resource rich.
Then I asked him what literature was written before the introduction of Islam, even after Islam what technological innovations did they invent and export?
The response…was I was a pan of white supremacy, a sell out, I was brain washed by the white devil, blah blah blah…
He really lost it when I said…
You consider Dark age Europe, maybe Dark age UK inferior to West Africa at the same time correct?
He said, “certainly…even Arabs say this, some of them that were not racist..blah blah”.
So I then showed him this.
I said, here is Timbuktu’s great architectural achievement and here is Dark Age Europe…who do you think was more technologically advance.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/medieval_cathedrals.htm
http://www.mrdowling.com/images/609mosque.jpg
I posted a few more in France and Italy which were more impressive than the UK ones and some more shots of Timbuktu
The conversation from there descended into a rant about how I was a “coon” and a “traitor”…LOL
Ken:
I think they do this for self esteem.
Not their own, but these people are inherently racialist and a lot of their self esteem is based on what their race did, not them as individuals. They were taught like this…or became like this at some point. So they can have a million dollars and still have an inferiority complex unless they feel morally superior to the white man and at times even materially superior (in ancient times) and it was only due to the evil of the white race that they are still not superior as a race.
Truth is, if my ancestors never accomplished more than aboriginee, I could care less, it has nothing to do with what I’m about to do in the future.
This is why I say “their race owns them” not the other way around.
Ken:
In the end, looking at the long view, it won’t matter much…give it 300 years. I fully agree with Fredrick Douglas.
” My strongest conviction as to the future of the negro therefore is, that he will not be expatriated nor annihilated, nor will he forever remain a separate and distinct race from the people around him, but that he will be absorbed, assimilated, and will only appear finally, as the Phoenicians now appear on the shores of the Shannon, in the features of a blended race. I cannot give at length my reasons for this conclusion, and perhaps the reader may think that the wish is father to the thought, and may in his wrath denounce my conclusion as utterly impossible.0″
read more below
http://afroamhistory.about.com/ l…olored_race.htm
Every census interracial marriage increases and has been since the 1960’s, especially during the 1980’s. This also does not count out of wedlock birth, which is high among blacks.
Most mulattoes, from what I read marry black people. So what is happening?
Every generation more and more white and “other” blood comes into the black community.
Not just that, but black interracial marriage tends to increase with higher class status. The middle class and up black males marry out more. Especially if they have daughters, up and coming black males want to marry them (we all know how the rich black men are married to white women or nearly white “black” women).
Currently, on average, blacks are 20% white. That will continue to increase.
If the current trend last about 200 more years…won’t be many “black folks” left but for new immigrants from Africa/Carribean and probably the poorest of the poor African Americans who are isolated by class or culture from the mainstream.
I suspect in 100 years you will see clearly that the “black” middle class is more mulatto than anything else, and the underclass will be increasing darker/unmixed. Actually I think this is already happening, but the rate of increase will make it more obvious.
This is not my “opinion” this is just extrapolating current trends into the future, if trends hold this will happen.
Some black people will say, “I ain’t marrying a white man(woman) no matter what…but if they “keep it real” and marry a light skin multigenerational mulatto or a “true mulatto” it hardly makes a difference as they just whitened their off spring and made them less African. You can only keep a cultural based on sepratism so long…once your kids start look like Mariah Carey and Vin Disel it really doesn’t matter as they will “pass” without even trying.
Asians already marry out at about 1/3 (more men than women) and Hispanics at about 25%…a little more women then men. As this continues and blacks “normalize” as a people in America the centrifical force will grab more of us too, If American manages to maintain stability that long and nothing interrupts the trends we have seen the last 40 years.
What I do know is that historically it has never been normal for two groups of people occupying the same land to not intermix over time, unless religion is involved, but even with Hinduism and Judaism there is obviously admixture with Ashkenazi and the uppercast of Hindus are not all per “Aryans from Persian”…some of them are quite dark…there has been mixture in the past.
All these mentally deranged racialist, black, white, or otherwise are on the wrong side of history…and their resistance is futile.
I think I agree with the mixing of races, however I won’t see it in a hundred years or 300 years.
I was trying to figure out how to adjust the argument a little to cause more thought. I think your point about identification should be expanded. For instance when BT says conservatism is racism, somehow I feel he said I am racist. Or when someone talks about what the white man did, my first inclination is to point out whites who opposed the others.
Now if I was in school studying history, I wouldn’t feel this same inclination, but on Blackprof, I do.
My guess is the person who wants to talk about the great accomplishments of ancient black civilization, or the history of black suppression is feeling the need to, in much the same reason I would feel the need to say not all white people act like the ones you are citing, when I am on black prof.
Your idea of identification is correct, but is it who I identify with; or is it who I perceive the audience identifies me with? Do black people get together and talk about how great their ancient civilization was or is that save for different audiences?
By the way your picture of BT looks young for how I would picture him.
Excellent questions…
“Your idea of identification is correct, but is it who I identify with; or is it who I perceive the audience identifies me with? Do black people get together and talk about how great their ancient civilization was or is that save for different audiences?”
Well I think if one already has self esteem issues and then they fear someone is saying “all blacks were little more than cave men in Africa and they should thanks God whites civilized them” then I can imagine an over the top refutation of that, but even more an exaggeration of black African achievement as a way to counter what they saw as an aggregation of outright racist lie of black achievement.
In my experience (and I don’t associate with black nationalists) black people rarely talk about anything historical before the civil rights movement…sometimes Jim Crow, but many blacks still do not want to talk about slavery as it is something I think that makes many black people ashamed and/or angry. In any case history is often used by propoganda to boost group self esteem…this is true in nationalist movements where they often blatantly lie about historical things.
A big one that I can think of is that Macedonian Slavs claim to be the truth Greek Macedonians descendant from Alexander the Great, which pisses off Greeks because it is a lie…but you know…newly independent country looking for an identity other than Serbia or Croation which dominated Yugoslavia. I guess black nationalists are not different. Still urks me.
As far as the BT picture, I figured one angry black militant was as good as another, they all basically sound the same.
John McWhorter said something I think is relevant to this topic when dicussing the brouhaha at Harvard a few years ago:
“The dustup between Summers and Harvard’s black superstars provoked a flurry of articles and op-eds earlier this year, but most of the coverage missed its true import. In how it played out, the controversy cast a cold light on how today’s black academic experience—for students and teachers alike—remains faithful to two destructive orthodoxies: that for blacks, victimhood is a moral duty; and that, because of their history of oppression, blacks should get an exemption from the standards that apply to others.”
http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_2_the_mau_mauing.html
More from the article above:
“The campus race game has largely prevented any sustained investigation into what—if anything—Afro-American studies programs actually accomplish academically. The assumption in the mainstream press during the West-Summers contretemps was that the intellectual quality of Harvard’s Afro-American studies was unassailable.
Unfortunately, that’s far from true. Survey the department’s undergraduate curriculum, and you find that most of the courses express the pernicious belief that victimhood defines what it means to be African-American—that to be black in America has always been a story of betrayal, disappointment, passivity, and tragedy, and that when things seem to be improving, it’s only an illusion.
It’s not that students receive an unalloyed diet of anti-establishment rage; some of the course offerings are worthy. Werner Sollors, for example, is currently teaching a subtle course on biracialism, a useful topic in a society where blacks and whites intermarry in increasing numbers. Ingrid Monson’s lectures on jazz illuminate one of blacks’ most complex and vibrant contributions to American culture—and happily, she’s not taking the line that whites’ adoption of jazz was cultural theft. Susan O’Donovan’s “African Americans in the Civil War Era” keys in on blacks’ contributions to abolitionism and their self-help efforts at the time.
Even Gates and West have offered sensible courses in recent years. Gates’s overview of black literature is entirely sober, with no evident bias toward “protest” literature. And West’s “Introduction to African-American Studies” straightforwardly presents the best that has been thought and written by black Americans through the centuries—Du Bois, Paula Giddings’s magisterial survey of black women in history When and Where I Enter, Ellison, Baldwin, William Julius Wilson’s The Declining Significance of Race, and so on.
But if some of the department’s courses are fine, most of them are victimology in its Sunday best; some even verge on fantasy. Tommie Shelby’s “Marxist Theories of Racism” unpacks “the role of capitalist development and expansion in perpetuating racial inequality” and boasts a reading list that can serve as a primer on how to rage (articulately) against the machine: Caste, Class, and Race; Sexism, Power and Ideology; and, simply, Racism. Lawrence Bobo’s “Race, Segregation and Inequality” obsesses over racial inequality, too. Bobo teaches his students that African Americans’ problems are permanent, short of a revolutionary rending of the national fabric. Other courses mine the history of cinema, language, and hip-hop music, mainly to stoke eternal indignation at the Man. Note that the hip-hop survey has 74 students, while O’Donovan’s abolitionism course has just two.
One course—Karen McCarthy Brown’s “Haiti and Haitian Vodou”—descends into the fantastic. You might think that a Harvard class on Haitian voodoo would simply instruct students about a common cultural trait of African-descended peoples, but
McCarthy Brown recruits the topic to counsel blacks to reject Western Enlightenment rationalism as corrupt and to embrace voodoo spirits as real. “What is known,” the course syllabus reads, “is that the Vodou spirits have been active in Haitian politics” and, it goes on to say, “have even been sighted in cyberspace.”
Notably missing from any of this spring’s 13 departmental offerings is a single text by a black conservative. Thomas Sowell has written important academic books and countless substantial essays on race over the past three decades, and Shelby Steele’s work is unquestionably weighty enough to merit the attention of young black minds, but Harvard’s Afro-American studies program ignores such thinkers, as if the invalidity of their ideas were self-evident (under a paradigm that assumes that indignation against the Man is the only legitimate way to be black, it probably is). Voodoo god Legba, yes; Sowell, no.
CLICK TO ENLARGE. Illustration by Arnold Roth.
The fixation on victimhood evident throughout the Afro-American studies program contrasts markedly with what goes at Harvard’s Center for Jewish Studies. No one can deny that Jews have suffered merciless oppression during their history. Yet one searches the offerings of the Center for Jewish Studies in vain for any emphasis on victimhood as a permanent condition. This difference is not accidental. Jews in America have long had an orientation toward their history that stresses the positive, even in the greatest suffering, and that highlights strength, not fragility.
Such an approach characterized African-American culture too until the 1960s, when black leaders and thinkers got caught in the groundswell of anti-establishment ideology and, bruised by centuries of degradation, drank in the new message. The result was the illusion that to claim injury.”
[quote]What BT, Nana, Cnulan, and especially Cracka don’t get is they feel helpless, despite their middling efforts to connect with their blackness, or use it in an argument, because they truly believe they are persecuted when the truth is whatever failings they blame on the white man and try to brag about in an effort to temporarily boost their self esteem are mostly, if not totally, their fault.[/quote]
Why are you surprised?
It is a good game. It WORKS WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
They are NOT GOING TO CHANGE until the Black Community repudiates this tendency.
I have learned that many Black people compensate for their PERSONAL FAILURE in the world by seeking to build a COMMUNITY OF FAILURE COALITION and then blaming their fate on RACISM.
The Democrats have mastered the technique of “understanding” Black people’s frustrations and PROMISING to fix them. This is the proverbial carrot that have used to get 90% of the Black vote tried and true.
CS:
“They are NOT GOING TO CHANGE until the Black Community repudiates this tendency.”
Well I think the majority of black people don’t feel this way but due to group pressure they don’t speak up.
The people I do see speak like this the most are the highly educated intelligentsia (who are typically extremely leftist and just angry and hateful) and the very lower class who needs to blame their “bad luck” on someone other then themselves or family.
Leftist counter that conservative whites are racists. Well the truth is there are conservative racists, but they discount liberal paternalistic racists.
Some just counter that all whites are racist are part of a racist conspiracy web known as global white supremacy. I guess that is the black version of the white man’s Jewish Elders of Zion New World Order nonsense you can see white supremacist spouting off about.
The problem is, if black people keep up this nonsense, and those who have “made it” keeping pumping the head of those who have not with this, those who have not will not come up.
You also are right Democrats are not stupid. In fact since the 1970’s, once they figured out that the “Great Welfare Society” was actually hurting black people, as the Moynihan Report in the 1960’s predicted, I believe leftist white liberals were very happy. They had a dependent class they could exploit and they have been working with black preachers and leftest intellectuals in academia to keep black folks that way.
Some blacks leftist counter that there is no alternative because white conservatives are racists. Well, there are racist white conservatives, however they tend to discount white liberal paternalistic racists.
Others counter that all whites are consciously racist or unconsciously support a system of white supremacy, which is a world wide global web that taints every thing in the world. This similar to what white supremacist cry about endlessly regarding Jews, the New World Order, and the Elders of Zion.
Many of those people are just mentally ill, I’ve talked to some of them on the net and asked them direct pointed questions concerning where there ideology falls short. They usually respond with “mental gymnastics” or just start name calling and talking even more irrationally.
This a bunch of EDIT? ! Who do you really work for? I don’t have any problem with your pov, or even your presentations, but to sit here and talk about BT, Cnulan, Craka Smasha, and all the rest as, if you and this crew who’ve assembled here aren’t capable of similar vitriol shows that you’ve taken you selves waaaaaaaaaaaay to seriously or you’re on crack. Now What?
Moderator: No cursing on my site, first and last warning, next time your complete comment will be erased.
Taf:
Work for? Are you implying this is a “vast right wing conspiracy”? As Malcolm would have said, ” you’ve been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray”. LOL
I gave every person you listed above the opportunity to debate me one on one right here as individuals. Every time I post anything, regardless of the validity they attack it mindlessly (especially Cracka Smasher). Cnulan runs around the net like a rabies invested chimp pounding his chest trying to prove his is blackerthanthou trying to out people and spreading the most vile disgusting attacks, or have you forgot how he posted hard core poor (including defecation and water sports) on http://www.dellgines.com when the site was up? Have I ever did something like that? This is a grown man who pretends to be educated at MIT for god-sake. I question if such an adult is even mentally stable let alone intellectually viable.
So I decided to create a forum where they can speak their mind and we could learn more about each others positions, a fair forum where there is no interference, with very simple rules that anyone can agree on.
Silence speaks volumes. They are empty suits. You know I am not.
As far as vitriol, I do not believe you see anywhere on this site the type of nonsense that BT post on a regular basis when someone disagree with them, and especially not the intellectual vomit that “Cracker Smasher” post on a regular basis. I do not allow that on this site (from me or anyone else).
If you have a particular issue, then please state it. If not, I think these people should be man enough to speak for themselves. Apparently not, but hey…not my issue.
I don’t take myself very seriously but I do have self respect and respect for others who respect me. I also respect pluralism. Everyone has heated arguments but those people above are simply ignorant and an embarrassment to black people for posting on a site called Black Professor. People around the world view that site and they must be thinking…”damn black Americans really aren’t that intelligent” after they read stuff by Cracka Smasher, but I’m not surprised because these leftist academics have been doing this kind of things for decades now. They insight anger and hatred among less educated blacks and promote it for political reasons. Nothing new there, been going on since the late 1960’s.
To be honest with you I’m not too interested in any of the people above, as I have concluded they are just caricature. What interests me is the ideology that creates such people and the origin of it, something Ken, CS, and I have been discussing.
Now that I’ve calm down somewhat, of course I can be more respectful. What’s most interesting is that over the year or so since I first encountered you ( and I mean that in metaphysical sense ), I’ve grown personally. Being in school and coming to realize that one has to be diplomatic just to get a great education.
One of main complaints, which my be indictive of my educational status, is the overwhelming amounts of words you will employ in your responses. Quite often, embedded in your prose lies cynicism , sinister offensive fullers.
Amazingly though, perhaps because it is in my nature to do so, I also feel a kinship of sorts, which I haven’t even began to process.
1. Because, Its just become obvious enough to admit it.
2. Because I don’t particularly care how you recieve this revelation.
3. It’s more about who I am, then how you receive this revelation.
And lastly,
4. Because of the respect you show me.
With that out of the way, I will say that, and you may have observed, I don’t get to deep-off into politics. I’m much much more existential. I’m always looking for that common denominator. I won’t go into it any further, suffice it to say that I live in the past, present and future similtaneously, that Im use my innate ability to create my own reality.
And as lovely as the outcome, there still remains, however, strife, which so often it seems, you come out on the opposing side of what for some others’ is reality, what you refer to as group-thinking. Granted, its a spiraling of events that caused you ‘to respond to others the way that you do. However, Ras, you are not a victim. You give as good as you get.
Have I been dissappointed by anything some of the others have written? For sure ,but the same goes for you. I’ve even dissappointed myself. But for you to perch on this left -right pendulum, swinging with breezes blowing up yours, is delusional. Quite simply you’ve been as crude as the rest of us. ( My BT moment or a facsimile of,)
I will say this and will not trouble you any further. You aren’t any better than any of the rest of us. You haven’t had some epiphany that’s anymore politically relevant, at least I haven’t seen it in your writings. If you had some real knowledge, you’d be quoting some of the worlds most profound knowers and seekers of pure enlightenment.
I know ask you this; Who are you?
Trouvez votre esprit!
Taf:
I honestly try to show respect to all, but I do have a bad temper for people who I feel disrespect me, and sometimes I do overreact, that is why I prefer to keep things above board so it does not go there, but some folks on the net (not really you) do not get that.
Who am I? Myself. That is the only person I seek to be. A wise man does not seek what it is in others, he seeks to bring out the best in himself, perfect himself.
Also I never claimed victim status.
I am not a relativist. I do not believe reality is relevant. There is fact or fiction. I realize the reality that one observes is based on ones position in time-space in physics, however outside of theory and in everyday life there is fact or there is fiction. The only people who can have a relative reality are the mentally ill or some type of extra-dimensional (or maybe time/space traveler) and I don’t know of the existence of the latter. So once again, factor or fiction.
I also believe in pragmatism and I believe in logic over emotion when it comes to analysis and decision making. I seek the truth, regardless if it is politically correct or emotionally comfortable.
Also, because of this I am not a rightest. I hate Bush. I am not a registered Republican and I do not consider myself a “conservative” and I am no Neo-Con. If anything I’m a Libertarian who is slightly right of center, but I never let ideology trump pragmatism. If I appear to come down on the “right” of things that is only coincidence or your perception.
If I had real knowledge I would not be “quoting the most profound knowers and seekers” I would be proclaiming my own unique theory, and maybe due to luck and efforts it would attract adherents. In reality that is not my goal and I quote people all the time on this site. Who you consider ” a profound knower and seeker of pure enlightenment” depends a lot on where you are at in your life and what level of thought you have climbed to.
Right now I’m pretty much stuck on some radically different philosophies:
“Zen (Chan) (禪) is a school of Mahāyāna Buddhism notable for its emphasis on practice and experiential wisdom—particularly as realized in the form of meditation known as zazen—in the attainment of awakening. As such, it de-emphasizes both theoretical knowledge and the study of religious texts in favor of direct individual experience of one’s own true nature.”
Which is also the religion of my wife.
Then I flip the script and love to confuse myself with Nietzscheism (Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche), who himself believed both Buddhism and Christianity to be nihilistic slave religions.
In any case that is where I am at, aphorism and sutras.
As far as “better than” others. If I feel there is anything superior as compared to those you refer to as “us”, it is something very simple. I am mature enough, open enough, and possess enough self esteem to except the concept of pluralism of thought. I may argue and I may never agree, but I do not try to trash people for simply having a different belief as long as they can back that belief up and are being rational in their expression I will listen to them. You have never know me to just disregard a rational argument without at least trying to understand it, even if I believe it is false. I think the first step in truth seeking is to be aware of your own human limitations and the fact that you could always be wrong because, as a human, you are not and can never be omniscience.
Those people you named above have an ego so large that they allow arrogance and fear (based on paranoia) to not only stunt their intellectual growth but block the truth like a nimbostratus cloud. So, epiphany, in my estimation, is not what would make someone a “superior man”, it is the ability to be open one’s self to the truth that will allow that epiphany to form and further, realize that if it comes you are still not at the end of the road, because learning should only stop at death.
In short…the people your friends hate, racists, have already won, because racism owns them. It defines them, it shapes them. They have not even started playing the game, they are just running in place cursing the “white”.
And I will end on a song, to our friends…”the self-enslaved…” to there love affair with the white man.
“Blower’s Daughter”, Damien Rice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ThuXEDvCZk
Taf,
I really didn’t consider this a behind the back discussion or “these guys are idiots” discussions. DH and I come from totally different theological perspectives and yet in a social political sense can see the logic of our point of views. Sorry CS I don’t know your theological perspective. What was happening here was a discussion on this other point of view. How was it derived.
I don’t think the power from dependence is enough to describe the reason for this thought. Likely most of the people possessing these views will not be in the position to assume the power from the dependence this type of thinking manufactures. Also, my opinion is many of the people who argue this point of view, do understand their point of view is a position more reliant on the government. The same government they probably do not trust.
I also believe there is not much data to back their point of view up, so they resort to calling others racist, bigots, self haters, etc. Which makes me believe they see the facts, the numbers, the reality, but can’t accept it.
What I was trying to figure out is the “why” this is there point of view. I noticed you came here and analyzed DH’s point of view, which has been analyzed in these other circles extensively, I was hoping to get some insight to the ones who normally cry racism and hold to this point of view I don’t understand. My motivation was to discuss more in a perceived blameless way where the issue would be discussed on the merit, instead of the attack that can always happen because of my point of view.
If these characters are ones that hold your many of your point of view, you could be helpful in explaining why the fears, and personal experiences that shaped your position. Maybe a way to help open it up, why did you feel the need to get so angry and start spouting and instead of explaining how our fragmented thoughts so far, are missing the mark.
“In my experience (and I don’t associate with black nationalists) black people rarely talk about anything historical before the civil rights movement…sometimes Jim Crow, but many blacks still do not want to talk about slavery as it is something I think that makes many black people ashamed and/or angry.”
Sorry to not let this topic die, but I was going to put forth a theory. My neighbor is in to those shiney old cars, and one day he was all excited he was able to offer tickets to a car show to look at all the old prestine machines. I am not really much into it, but to be nice I shared his excitement and said we would use them.
We walked up and down the cars and if some cars were familiar from my past I would sort of go back and remember in a positive way little events the vehicle triggered. Also I would be thinking how much work it must take to get these cars looking this good, and then to come to the show, wow the time, while my thoughts were tumbling around my head in this fashion, my wife interrupts, these cars remind me of racism, I always see these types of cars in movies about racism. She wasn’t angry or anything, just noted it.
I looked up and down the rows of peoples and cars, there wasn’t a black car restorer in sight. My thoughts changed to, I wonder how many other things that whites enjoy reminscing about would remind some blacks of racism. Many went through head and I don’t kow which ones actually would.
But here is where I thought this may be a factor. When conservatives talk about traditonal values. Usually this means something from the past that still would work today. But could there be some who look at these ideas as trying to bring back the racism of the past? The foundation of education the the three r’s. Cobb with old school. Might some of these be resistant to what actually works because it was connected to a time where racism was also a part of the same era?
Could things like traditonal two parent families trigger thoughts of trying to bring back the 60’s. A question might be thought of like this? “Why do you think this is good, because blacks were in their place then?” While the right preaches about tried and true practices that work from methods of the past or what would be considered the natural order of things, people on the left may look at this as trying to bring back the racism of the past.
Its just a thought.
Actually a black liberal from Booker Rising said the same thing to me today. I said in the past many blacks had ideas of shame, family honor, face…not as strict, but losely similar to East Asians. In the 1950’s many blacks would be ashamed and feel dishonored if people looked down on their family because their daughter got pregnant of of wedlock and if they could afford to, “send her down South or away”. This social pressure obviously effect behavior.
The response from the Liberal was…”so you want to bring back the 1950’s when blacks lived under Jim Crow”.
I was like…”Are you serious? What the hell does Jim Crow have to do with family values and moral standards…are you saying blacks can only have that when they are oppressed?”
He did what you just said…he linked everything old or traditional about America, even about blacks with “racism”.
Many black people do this, I think even subconsciously.
When we talk about the founding fathers and their political views…I guarantee you most blacks don’t give a damn about these type of political arguments, they are just thinking “those were white racists slave owning supremacist who either participated in directly or allowed my ancestors to be oppressed” and they pretty much stop thinking critically and throw the baby out with the bath water.
This is also why I think many blacks fell for socialism/communism in the 1960-70’s because white leftist who promoted these ideas (and Maoist) hated the West, America specifically and anything traditional. It was all based on class/race/sex oppression and the only way to fix it was to destroy it.
Chinese did the same thing during the Cultural Revolution. Anything from pre-Communist China had to be destroyed it was all evil and oppressive.
I think, as far as America, it does not help that many whites conservatives seem to idealize the 1950’s as a Golden Age, when it was not for black people. It was a time when the WWII generation used government money they got from the war to settle in new suburbs and they worked good paying factor jobs, but blacks were largely cut out of this due to over racism of the time that was even approved of or condoned by the federal government.
I think many instead of talking about “time periods” we should be more abstract and talk about specific morals or specific benefit due to those morals and the negative alternative. I also try to reinforce the idea that these were not “white oppressive moral norms” but blacks had them and I try to quote black intelligentsia from back in the day..>Booker T Washington, WEB Dubois, Fredrick Douglas…none of these people supported out of wedlock marriage, in fact WEB Dubois supported limited eugenics…which is something that many people of this generation do not know. I don’t know about Booker T. Washington personally but I have speeches his wife gave at churches saying the same thing. It is amazing how so many black “radical” idealize these men and really don’t have a global understanding of there thought. When I post these direct quotes they usually don’t even respond, because they are dumbfounded.
Bingo
“I also believe there is not much data to back their point of view up, so they resort to calling others racist, bigots, self haters, etc. Which makes me believe they see the facts, the numbers, the reality, but can’t accept it.”
This is a big thing. They are in denial and will do all types of mental gymnastics to explain what is usually obvious because if they accept something is wrong with black people (mostly the lower class on average) then for them it is equal to saying “all black people including themselves are messed up”. The reasons for that is they do not tend to accept class difference in the black community (or any) as anything but artificial, having nothing to do with culture/talent/interest. Having this attitude, the only difference between the black poor and the more affluent blacks is white racism has done more to keep these people down (although they are only 20% of the population and most blacks don’t live that way). As I said before I have seen racialism, ethnocentrism, religious fanaticism make normally intelligent people completely irrational. This is what happens when you heavily base your identity and self esteem on “group performance”.
“They are in denial and will do all types of mental gymnastics to explain what is usually obvious because if they accept something is wrong with black people”
Here is where you would be shut down and the discussion would turn to be talking about you instead of the issue. You have to find the divide someplace else. Its not black people, but black people statistically are making these “x” lifestyle decisions who find themselves in this situation have this problem; of course I know you already know this, but to the person in denial anything to discount what you are saying.
You and I need to find stats of white people in these same situations having the same statistical problems black people do. For instance single family units would be one. Whites poverty rate for single parent families is close to 30% while two parent families is around 7%. Blacks is a little higher above 35% and under 10%. But you see now the divide is not its because I am black, everybody making these choices is more likely to screw there lives up and their offspring’s.
Putting the topic back to them… How did you accomplish what you did, and why don’t you think others have the same oppurtunity. Or… like in the thread that drifted into reparations, notice when we went to discussing who receives damage compensation and who is responsible for damages, it never got answered, the issue itself is more important than the solution. Similiar to global warming, we went from global freezing in the 70’s to global warming now, nobody will be able to explain what year was the perfect year for temperature. The issue, if it really is one, is manufactured for manipulation. These types of issues need to be addressed by jumping past the debate if they are correct, to instead the rolling out of the new program and its goals.
“The reasons for that is they do not tend to accept class difference in the black community (or any) as anything but artificial, having nothing to do with culture/talent/interest.”
The opposite of this thought is the liberal whte elite mentality, that believes themselves only capable while discounting others ability to work or think for themselves. So there is some good to this thought.
“As I said before I have seen racialism, ethnocentrism, religious fanaticism make normally intelligent people completely irrational. This is what happens when you heavily base your identity and self esteem on “group performance”.
Agreed, a reason why I like individualism.
Do you like how I took your one 1/2 of a sentence out of context and ran wint it? That’s how its done isn’t it?
Hello Ken:
I didn’t want you to wait so long before getting a response from me. But, achieving clarity is bridled by a lack of free-time. So briefly let me say in response; If I start out word building, one word that comes to mind is “pragmatic.” In order to make what I say meaningful, building of course from that one word, I would ask that you allow me a bit more time to process my thoughts. I look forward to picking it up at your post.
Ken:
Yeah, that’s exactly how it is done.
I also agree it might be helpful to focus on how different decisions lead to differing average results and then apply that to a “race specific” situation. I’m going to try that and see how it works.
DH, I would not smile so quickly. It’s your use of the word “pragmatic” that I intend to challange. Particularly, your use of that word in disscussion in the Halle Berry thread at Booker Rising.
More examples of ridiculous behavior by Taf’s idols:
http://cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2007/08/the-putnam-repo.html
Negrorage handled his though against the cyber stalker Cnulan.
I read that awhile ago, did you read the link inside of your link that went back to P6 where the “Powers That Be” held a meeting and decided to administer mercy on Negrorage.
You would also note in that link how Cnulan considers his “outing” of you as one of his greatest personal accomplishments.
http://www.prometheus6.org/node/17745#comment-24119
Its cool, I’m not scared of him, he is a bully and a low self esteem idiot like most of them I put him on blast:
Craig:
Let’s sum this up.
You and BET (yeah because that is the intelligence level of most of his rants) are not the Internet or this site for that matter. You are definitely not representative of the average black person, nor where you elected to lead, or respected on a nation or state level. If you are then show me BT. What is your name? If not shut up and cowar behind BET.
You don’t have a site.
You don’t pay bandwidth
You have not been on NPR (unlike some people you denigrate) you give no solutions to anything but your conspiracy theories and “nightmare worst case oil crisis scenarios” that no one listens to.
BT uses and alias, you don’t but no one cares who you are. BT is obviously mentally ill.
The Prof let me post on this site. Never been banned, never had one post deleted. Can you say that “Black Flag” and all the other alias you posted under last fall” yeah they know about that, but you got a pass…because they were arguing about what do to with people like you. Oh what you didn’t know that?
How many times have they e-mailed you and told you to stop acting a fool?
I know they have at least twice, because they told me…if you even used a real e-mail address.
Despite Jesse Jackson..”you ain’t nobody”…
As for that guy on “One Drop Rule”.
He was banned. I argued the case with the mods, and eventually won. The rules were also changed. I was offered to be a Mod, I turned it down.
End of story.
This is all you do. Internet black nazi harrassment, likely because you are a depressed pathetic little man, becaue the white people “didn’t recognize your genius” as you stated. Remember that? LOL
This is what you do:
cobb.typepad.com/cobb/2007/08/the-putnam-repo.html
Oh and your greatest personal accomplishment “outing people like me” yeah you are such a man now? You are in your late 30’s or early 40’s and you act like this? I feel sory for your son if you got one that he doesn’t have a man to look up to in the home, because you are not one:
http://www.prometheus6.org/node/17745#comment-24119
Here is what you do. When you can publish any thing written by your any place reputable…a journal, a national newspaper, a book…
Then I will stop laughing at you and act like you are not the piss ant cry baby mentally ill pathetic excuse for a black male that you are.
Until then keep doing what you doing…because that is all you can do.
Even P6 said didn’t speak highly of you:
bookerrising.blogspot.com/2007/08/booker-rising-on-national-public-radio.html
“He (Craig Nulan) and I have tactical issues and have SIGNIFICANT areas of disagreement. He is alternately annoying and challenging,”
Also please explain to everyone why you came on Dellgines site before it went down and posted the most discusting vile porn (including defication and water sports) I have ever seen because BT and someone else disagreed with you? Dell had to delete it and tell you to calm down? Is that what intelligent upright black men do in your family? Probably.
Cnulan…you don’t get it, no one cares what you do or think anymore, because it is all lies, you don’t do anything. If you did you would actually speak to it and encourage others to do it instead of acting a fool.
you are a joke, that is why Shay censored your comments on her site and she is watching out for “you” because it is known you are a freak.
You can’t even post anything interesting at Assult on Black Folks Sanity, Mike Fisher and the others have posted a ridiculous amount of stuff…Craig? nothing.
Same You Tube, same conspiracy theories, no original thought, no ability to reason without acting like an animal and trying to boost your self esteem because the bad white man did not “recognize your genius”…arrogant sod.
LOL
I can’t even stop laughing because in reality you are so stereotypical it is ridiciulous.
You write in big words trying to make yourself sound more intelligent than you are (something even Prof’s in academic journals don’t do because it is pretensions and stupid) and you think the average black person even understands? You don’t even speak to your audience.
Why? Because it is all about you and your ego…that is it. It is a C R A I G N U L A N show but you don’t even own the freaking stage. HAHAH…
Fool please.
He will act a fool now becaues that is what he does…he is obviously mentally ill.
I posted this as well:
Oh one more thing…lets see what Negro Rage said about Craig Nulan…I love it…it is pretty funny because it broke him down so nicely:
“ROFL! seriously man, do you keep this stuff in a Word document and just cut and paste it as your standard recycled response to everything?”
“Craig acting like a thug street hood at the public liberary:If you’d prefer, I can adopt the nakedly adversarial stance implicit in b.) and on that basis, construct a series of withering, systematic, and highly personal attacks from which you’ll never publicly recover. Here-to-date, I’ve only done that to a pair of corrupt mappers - but if you’d like - we can shift gears and enter the discursive endgame.
Negrorage dismissing him like the mentally incompotent depends diaper drooling idiot he is:Aw, What the f*ck?! Is this a threat? Ha! Do your worst homie, you’ll only end up making yourself look like a raging retard. …”highly personal attacks” LOL! You don’t even KNOW me in real life so I doubt you can get that personal. The only thing you can do is do what you’ve always done and present some criticisms of what I’ve allowed you to see through my writings. My theory is that you’re butt-hurt because I put your recycled psycho babble bullshit on blast and the only way you could respond was by pumping up your chest, ha ha. You mad now? “egoic investments” …That isn’t even a legitimate critique of an argument, just a lame-ass attack on the arguer. Please, take that played-out pseudo-intellectual steez of yours back to the garbage can you fished it out of. I would love to see what your “end-game” is. LOL@ your new-found E-Thuggery.”
and it gets better
Even Mandhisa who I don’t tend to care for chimed in:
Um okay. I wish insults would go away and the focus would be on ARGUMENTATION of the theses in Cobb’s post.
But see Cnulan can’t do that.
It is all about his ego.
Negro rage ask him the same thing I do
“Craig, you’re at least 40 years old, so the fact that you’re still trying to go tit for tat in here is really a reflection of your own adult maturity - how long do you plan to sit here and trade personal insults with me over the internet like a teenager?”
and then
“Tips for adult argumentation: personal, ad hominem attacks are generally considered childish by most adults.
Rule number one of adult discourse Doug: Own and be personally accountable for your words….,
The same goes for you, oh wise keeper of genuine Blackness.
”
and then he mentions me because it is the last time he actually felt like a man
“Negro Rage: Its obvious you just can’t deal with the fact that not everyone thinks like you. If you want to disagree and critique the argument, its called basic respect - you were supposed to have learned that in whatever colleges you went to but they either didn’t teach it to you or you were too dense to learn it.
Cnulan:This is getting even better than when I snatched the Rasfarengi/Dragon Horse alias off of Colin Speers
Again, links please.
Negro rageThis would all be done and over with if you started showing some basic level of respect toward the people who comment here, like a grown man would do, and maybe acted your age a little more.
”
and Negro Rage sums up the arrogants
” find it utterly hilarious and ironic that someone who prides himself on being a champion of the deconstruction of conservative authoritarianism is also the same person who thinks he has jurisdiction and moral authority over what “genuine Blackness” is. We’ve been over this before. Your emotionally overwrought reaction over at Vision Circle exposed the real you as well: ”
Beautiful…and this is the last time I will respond to Cnulan…because it is obvious what he is. Everytime he says somethign stupid that I see I will send it directly to the profs with examples of stuff like this on other sites…and hopefully he will be banned…besides sneak attacks if he can’t post under his own name he is not too interested because he ego won’t allow for it.
Craig Nulan info:
His Wife Kelly.
http://www.prukc.com/xq/ASPX/Key.Kelly_Nulan/qx/Agents/Biography.htm
I wonder does she know what her husband does? That he post hard core porn on web sites accessable to children? I wonder do his business associates. To bad Dell took his site down.
Craig is the fat high yellow chrome dome moron in the middle:
http://media.www.unews.com/media/storage/paper274/news/2005/02/21/News/Umkc-Hosts.Blacks.In.Technology.Week-871788.shtml
I got this information because Craig uses his real name.
Cnulan’s words are impressive however if you look for contribution other than insult, there is never anything there. If you do decide to respond to him, my advice would be to keep copying parts of his post and point out he said absolutely nothing.
For instance the post at Black Prof filled with insults came this close to a contribution:
“When you finish your impotently furious barrage in response to getting put out on front street, I’ll tell you what grown folks do to substantively effect change. ”
I am going to post this phrase and compliment him on his deleted question to the post’s author. and then ask him to elaborate. My guess is there won’t be anything there.
By the way, I think his birthday is coming up next month and that should make him 45 I think.
http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_zaba.php?sname=craig%20nulan&state=KS&ref=ref&se=se&doby=&city=&name_style=1
However, I would have trouble not bringing on your response, I think you would do well to let him look like the explosive insulting idiot, while you look like the one who isn’t good at sending it back. Even though this wasn’t hidden this time.
I will take into account what you said.
What bothers me is that he breaks down every conversation and attempts to bully people who do not agree with him. He is a 45 year old man who went to MIT…it is obviously he has mental health issues, I have never meant such a man who acted this way and I seriously doubt he would be so disrespectful in my face. He hides behind the fact that no one is going to fly down to Kansas City and confront him where I am sure he would run like a coward.
I don’t get these people, at all…and more, I do not get why people allow them to post on their sites…like Cob, P6, Blackprof. They have all denigrated him, but still allow it. Is “hit points” that important or do they just not care about what they enable?
“I’m still thinking about the best way to use this information. This guy thinks has some kind of god complex, well we are about to shrink that down a bit…”
Calm down now. You should quit and back up a bit. Its only a blog. Your post here was a nice way to let off some steam, it shouldn’t energize you to a new of stress.
If it helps many get it. And to do more will only reflect on you, and scare them from opening there IP address to you on your site.
This is true…I obviously didn’t get any information Craig from an IP, I got it from his name.
I know you got it from his name, but you know what I mean.
In reality on the Blackprof, who really actually wants to have a conversation about anything by Nana, you, and myself? WHo else? Ed comes around once and a while to promote poo blacks as intellectually superior to blacks who are middle class and up. He has some serious class inferiority issues. He does say some things I like about blacks being more international minded as far as the job market and learning concrete skills.
Other than that…? We have BT, Cracker Smasher, Craig Nulan, and whatever the racist of the month is none of which want to discuss anything.
Oh once and a while Big Man on Campus usually has something to say of worth, even if I don’t agree, I appreciate it.
That site is dead, and it has to do with BT and Cnulan running people off of it. It was at one time more diverse.
It is pretty sad to me.
What I have found is if a site gets good traffic and it is about race issues it will turn into a pure racial supremacy site (black, white, or other) if it is not moderated. It never fails.
Black nationalist racists (the junior mirror image cousins of white nationalist) will take it over and black leftist may not agree but usually just support them out of feeling of solidarity because they both hate white people, the government, America, etc.
There can be no conversation that does not match the noise of the echo chamber.
If you noticed BT never admits anything is wrong with any black people ever unless forced and then it becomes very angry and reacts in the normal moronic way. Even though Prof. Wing clearly stated problems she saw and I talked about the out of wedlock birth rate, low SAT scores…which related directly to her talking about black school achievement levels and her fears for the future…BT said I was “bashing black people” with articles from a very liberal newspaper that cited black people agreeing with many things I said and doing something constructive about it.
Cnulan only came in to attack, never once spoke to the article. The only ones who did were you and Nana. That’s it. This is almost every post unless one of the professors bash a Republican
The site is pretty worthless.
I have pretty much argued from a conservative perspective. So I don’t try to ge BT to admit anything is wrong with black people. But what I have noticed is the “black thing” is really only the left thing. You will never get any to admit anything is wrong with any liberal philosophy. I don’t think there is any one thing more unfair black verses white than that black children are forced to grow up with one parent at least double the rate of white children.
Yet it will never be acknowledged. There is no real black issue, only another tool to make people accept leftist liberalism, its called racial accusation.
Well maybe there is one racial issue. I haven’t decided if Adrien is smart or she swerved into it. When she asked would whites consider it a emergency. Yes, what blacks would call racial oppression, whites would call a problem. Blacks are handicapped with ready excuses, whites only can only blame themselves, and solve the problems they know they caused themselves.
My reasons for going to the site are because I like to argue with people who disagree with me. I don’t want to go to a “me too” blog. I think I have become more confident about my own opinion, and certainly better at defending it. Another lower reason is I want to make sure I am literate in whatever my children’s ideologies may be pushed on them and want to be coherent in giving them what I think will be the correct assessment of the issue at hand.
And of course, I want to reduce the confidence of these arrogant wrong headed idio.. a.. individuals, and maybe change some minds.
No Ken…you are wrong. The only issue black leftist have is racism, real or imaginary. That is the one and only variable. Nothing else matters, and if they admit it is wrong, they relate it back to past racism and say that white people through government should fix it. When you ask them how…they don’t know…or they just say more affirmative action, reparations, etc. BT’s big plan for black school issues. The only thing he said was, “get rid of SATs” probably because he believes they are bias somehow, that is nonsense. My wife had a higher SAT score than me and English was her second language and she could barely speak before coming here in 11th grade. This is not an uncommon or unusual story I can name personally at least 15 more people I know who are exactly the same. My wife is from a middle class Japanese home in a rural area. She is not from the “elite” and she did not grow up exposed to all types of foreigners who spoke English. So no, SATs are not culturally bias, if they were 50% of Berkeley would not be Asian now (American and foreign).
BT also made stupid statements like blacks don’t try to go to better school or get into higher classes because Asians are too groupist…and they are that way from pre-school. LOL That does not coincide whatsoever with the Asians I know or the biggest indicator (more than my bias sampling) interracial marriage figures. He obviously has no clue what he is talking about and this is common and you can tell when he knows he is caught he just starts insulting…and he had never got around to the obvious issues that Prof. Wing put forward.
Same old thing…
True, but the only issue leftist have is class war, and racism is just another facet of this same ideology. Blacks have a better ability to embrace this perspective because of the fact there was indeed provable racism. Leftist theology would not hold blacks slaves if it were not for the racist history.
Leftist philosophy will never consider personal responsibility. In this way black lefts are the same.
Whites are not able to hold ths logic if things swing too far, This is the political parties change power. Meanwhile blacks can fall back and claim racism, which is why I find the question Adrien asked so interesting. If blacks could not fall back and blame racism, what would be the answer to get out of the situation of 1/3 male lock up rate, and multiple 8 murder rate? Whites would be in this situation and have to have politicians to asses the problem and produce outcomes. Black lefts don’t.
By the way Cnulan made a contribution. I was surprised
LOL, I just tried to reread what I wrote back then. I must have been smoking some chronic that day …LOL. I’ll leave all the intellectualizing to you guys.